Olly Crabb talks to south-east London writer Tommy Sissons at The Design Museum’s exhibition, Fred Perry: A British Icon. This was originally published in Olly Crabb’s publication, Deptford Culture Review.
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What book are you currently reading?
At the moment I am reading The Consequences of Modernity by Anthony Giddens - I’m primarily reading it as it is feeding into my MA dissertation, but it is also a fascinating read. Giddens is arguing that we don’t yet live in a postmodern world, but it was written in the 1990s and I would argue that we do now. His argument is that we are moving into a universalised space of “high-modernity”, and he elucidates all of the pitfalls and mishaps that can come alongside that progress. It’s informing my dissertation on British working-class fiction certainly as I am concerned with how Giddens’ predicted condition of society has drifted into the neoliberal, postmodern world that I believe we now inhabit.
Since this was written in the 1990s what do you think are the key signifiers of a shift into postmodernity?
Well, the rise of new technologies certainly, the information economy, the rampant globalisation that has come since Giddens’ book was written. The eclecticism of ideas and how we define ourselves as citizens of certain cities, or counties, or countries (if at all) has massively changed. Of course, social media too, the world is a lot more of an individualised, somewhat isolated place than it was in the early 1990s.
Which book will you always recommend when asked by someone?
Most likely, If on a Winter’s Night a Traveller by Italo Calvino. I am very big on meta-fiction; I am very big on intertextuality and Calvino’s novel is a web of intertextuality; lots of different stories drifting into one another without endings. It is quite a light read considering that it is very carefully and skilfully written, it is definitely one that you can enjoy whilst also feeling dead smart.
Is there any book that you wished that you had written?
This is a tough one but perhaps I would say A Kestrel for a Knave by Barry Hines, not necessarily because of its style, but because of location in time and space, so 1960s Yorkshire. I think it is a landmark in British working-class literature and also one of the foundational texts in my reading history as it has definitely shaped a lot of the work that I have done and my outlook on literature, as well as my interest in research in the literary field of proletarian authorship, so probably that.
How would you explain your connection to south east London?
I moved here eight years ago to study at Goldsmiths. I suppose the thing with Goldsmiths is that a lot of people come and then don’t move out of the area after years of living there. I think that is partly because it is one of the last bastions in London that is yet to be completely gentrified, although I think it is on its way in particular areas. I think that New Cross and Brockley has had a major impact on my growth as a writer but also in my personal life as a human being. I’ve got a lot of memories in both of those places, so I think the people and the experiences there have indirectly or unconsciously fed into my writing. I would still like to write about the area more directly and I am planning on doing that in the near future.
How do you manage to balance your own creative output with studying/working?
Getting up early, having to make certain sacrifices, like not really watching tele. I suppose I am a workaholic in some ways, but I guess I always have been, so I don’t mind it too much. I think, if anything, it would be harder to stop balancing my numerous commitments, because if I gave up on any of them or gave one any less attention then life would suddenly be unbalanced in a weird way - it is a juggling act, but it is an enjoyable juggling act.
Has there been any figure more than any other that has helped or guided you in your own work?
Joelle Taylor mentored me quite early in my career when I must have been 18-21. She definitely helped me out when I started doing spoken word and poetry in general. I think more recently in terms of my career it has been Tariq Goddard from Repeater Books. I have a lot to thank him for as has given me all sorts of opportunities in the last couple of years, he has guided me a lot. Elsewhere in the creative community I don’t think there is anyone who has had more influence than others, but it is my mother more than anybody else, not necessarily as a literature person but she gives me a kick up the ass all the time, so probably her more than anyone.
To what extent do you think your writing has progressed since your first published work?
More awareness of myself as a person, naturally with more life experience you become more aware of yourself, and it makes you a better writer in the sense that you can have more emotional maturity. You understand things better and feel a bit wiser perhaps. Also, more awareness of a particular style and what I want to say. More knowledge of literature, mostly through self-education practices. I have always thought that self-education, for me anyway, has been of more value than formal education, and the more that you read the better writer you will be for it. Having more years of reading under my belt has refined my skills and made me aware of literary styles and practices across the world and what I want to take as inspiration from that and how it can benefit me.
In what conditions do you find yourself most productive/creative?
In the morning - I get up at about 5am and then I need to be somewhere that I am isolated but perhaps where there are other people working, but I am anonymous because I don’t really know them. I often go to the library and sit there. I used to like just writing in my room and having nobody around, but I found that writing amongst other people that are at work just pushes me to do more, and I will spend hours and hours at a time just in the library as often as I can.
Do you remember the first Fred Perry that you owned?
I had a Fred Perry bomber jacket when I was 16 or 17. I was working at a hotel, and I was saving up the 30 quid from the shifts I was doing once a week so that I could get this £100 Fred Perry bomber jacket from JD Sports. I still have that and still wear it. It is covered with pin badges of everything from World Cup ‘66, to the miners’ strike, Andy Capp to the Michelin Man on a Vespa.
To what extent do you believe that aesthetic fashion is intrinsically linked to subcultural identity? How would you describe your relationship between the two?
They are massively linked. I think that now there are so many subcultural identities and I think a lot of quite eclectic styles. Everyone seems to be borrowing styles from different subcultures and using that to make themselves a unique style as an individual person, including myself I suppose - I like Mod clothes, skinhead clothes, 90s raver clothes, terrace-wear, some smarter timeless clothes too.
I don’t think there is necessarily an obvious subcultural movement at the moment that people feel strictly associated with. I think that was very much of a time and young people now miss that. People now tend to look towards the past to try and find something to latch onto to try to explain their identity and that’s why you get so many fourth or fifth generation Mods or Skins. I would prefer if there was new subcultures that people could fully associate with and be tribal over because I think that is what fuels so much fun in identity whilst you are young, but I don’t know if that will come as we live in a much more individualistic world which often isn’t in tune with collective culture as it stands - but you can mix and match all your different brands at the moment and make a patchwork of yourself, which is nice in its own way.
Reflecting on chapters from A Small Man’s England, what is it that inspired you to go into teaching despite all the visible flaws in the education system?
To risk sounding obvious, I want to go into it and play my role in attempting to fix it or at least make it better or more functional in providing opportunities for working-class kids that aren’t necessarily being pushed towards uni. I remember doing my teacher training course and somebody asking me why I wanted to get into it and I said that I wanted to “push working class kids into university” and she said “don’t you mean encourage?” to which I said “no, push”, because I think that is what is missing at the moment and there needs to be more proper working-class elbow grease put into education which pushes kids in the direction of higher education. Offering encouragement is nice and can certainly work for some but I think you need to go in there with fire in your bloody stomach and make it happen rather than getting into and becoming a cog and realising you haven’t changed much. You need to go in there and make that your main effort day after day after day, continuing to chip away at it.
What advice would you give anyone who was interested in teaching?
Do it, it is a wonderful job, and you can feel like you are making a difference. It is one of the most valuable jobs that you can have, and I think it is massively underpaid for the amount of time and effort that educators put into their work. Hopefully that will change at some point, but it is not underpaid enough to make it not feel worthwhile. Keep your personal values about you and be at a school that tries to reflect those, because a lot of them are very different with very specific values that you can find yourself conflicting with.
What are the projects that you are currently working on?
Working on more fiction at the moment - that is my main thing currently. Following that, move back into poetry too and get a collection out soon. Ideally have another two books out in the next 3 or 4 years, some poetry, and some fiction too. From there, see how we go, work on some more radio work, magazine work, everything I can do.
Tommy Sissons is a writer, poet and educator living in London. His debut polemic, A Small Man’s England was published by Repeater Books in 2021 and his poetry has been featured in a variety of journals including The Poetry Review. Sissons is also the editor of GRASS Magazine, a publication specialising in working-class literature and art. He has toured his spoken-word poetry across Europe and has delivered talks on youth culture and education at numerous institutions including the V&A Museum, the University of Sussex, and Sheffield Hallam University.
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